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Level 4
January 8, 2022
Question

Arizona 140-SBI

  • January 8, 2022
  • 29 replies
  • 32 views

I am trying to find out whether ProSeries is going to support the new Form 140-SBI for ARIZONA.

This is a brand new form. 

When I go to the release dates, Form Info, the 140-SBI is not listed.  But when I go to release dates and click on the exclamation mark inside the circle (so the read me file), and the "Small Business Tax Forms" are listed as not being final, so don't file yet.  But it doesn't say whether they eventually will or will not be included.

I have a handful of clients which will benefit from this new form.  But how do I find out even if ProSeries is going to have it?  (Or whether I am going to need to go to a pay per return product to handle these clients.)

(Note:  there are a couple of other forms that ProSeries does not offer on the federal level, which means I am likely going to need a pay per return product anyways - but trying to decide which one means I need to know how many and which forms I need outside of ProSeries.)

This topic has been closed for replies.

29 replies

Level 2
February 28, 2022

Have you found out anymore information on the status of Form 140-sbi? 

kgudgelAuthor
Level 4
March 1, 2022

No new info: 

The release information on 2021.180 at:  http://prodldfp.proseries.com/pro/2021/readme/readazi.htm says:

Forms

The following forms have not been finalized in this version of ProSeries/Arizona. When you open a form in the program, you might see "DO NOT FILE" in red text in the upper-right corner of the form, and you see the new, non-scrolling Form Status bar at the top of the form. The phrase DO NOT FILE - search "updating forms" for Help appears on the printed copy of the forms that are included in this version of ProSeries/Arizona. If your client's return contains any of the following, do not file that return until ProSeries/Arizona has been updated with a final, approved-for-filing version of each form included in that return:

  • Small Business Tax Forms

Again, this means to me that ProSeries is still planning on including it, but has not yet.  When there was similar wording on a previous release, I called Intuit and asked them if I was reading into it too much, but the rep thought that based on this statement they would EVENTUALLY include it.

kgudgelAuthor
Level 4
March 1, 2022

I also found this link on the AZ DOR website showing which vendors are "approved" for which forms:
https://azdor.gov/sites/default/files/media/FORMS_approved-vendors.pdf

Lacerte is approved for the 140-SBI (as of 2/23/2022), but ProSeries is not.  So, I don't know whether they will (eventually) do it or not.

Wish someone from Intuit would respond!!!!

BobKamman
Level 15
February 28, 2022

How will anyone benefit from using this form?  It was designed to solve a problem that doesn't exist because the tax cut for the wealthy has been delayed by the referendum petition.  

kgudgelAuthor
Level 4
March 1, 2022

How does someone benefit?

If the taxpayers AZ taxable income puts them in the 4.5% tax bracket (3.5% surcharge tax plus the 1% income tax since the maximum tax rate is 4.5%), they may be able to take advantage of the 3.5% income tax rate on SBI income.

Since we are talking about it only helping those whose regular income tax bracket is over 3.5%.  but it isn't that "hard" to get into that tax bracket (MFJ with AZ taxable Income > $111,229 or other filing status > $55,615).  If they are already in the 4.17% or 4.5% bracket, then can choose to file the SBI and have their Schedule B, C, E, F (and some D) taxed at only 3.5%.

Whether this form solves a problem that does or does not exist is a political question.  However, the AZ legislation passed this law - and if we as tax professionals don't help our clients pay as little tax as they are legally required to pay - then we aren't doing our job.

Now, I would argue that Intuit also isn't doing their "job" in not even telling us when the form might be available (or specifically telling us that it will not if they choose not to do so).

BobKamman
Level 15
March 1, 2022

When I looked at it, it seemed to me that to get the 3.5% rate you also had to pay the 1% rate.  It's too early for me to get those high-income business returns -- I'll look again when one comes along.  

BobKamman
Level 15
March 24, 2022

This is in a press release today from ADoR (which doesn't mention that a lot of elderly investors are considered a small business by the small-minded Legislature):

Preparing and Submitting Paper Returns

File matching forms together (in the same envelope):

Form 140-SBI is filed with Form 140.

Form 140PY-SBI is filed with Form 140PY.

Form 140NR-SBI is filed with Form 140NR.

On the SBI form, enter your individual name (and spouse name, if filing a joint return) as shown on your individual income tax return and address, not your business information.


If you use a software vendor to prepare your paper return, the return should not print a 2D barcode. If the return prints out with a 2D barcode, please cross it out before mailing to the Department. Please do not mail the return to the 2D barcode addresses. Instead, follow the instructions below for mailing.  (I assume the rest of this is on the ADoR website somewhere.)


 

Level 2
March 30, 2022

So where is the form.  It's still not in pro series and today is the 29th.

Sandra Lawes

Level 8
March 31, 2022

ProSeries, what the hell are you doing?  I continually get a message on my AZ returns saying the Arizona Small Business Income Tax Forms will be available in mid-March 2022.  When my patience was being tested last week when mid-March came and went, I called customer service and was absolutely assured and guaranteed, receiving an ironclad pledge, solemn promise, and unqualified commitment that the form would be released on March 31st.  I took you at your word, notifying my clients whose returns have been sitting here for over a month that I would be able to complete the returns on March 31st.  Well, I just downloaded version 2021.240 and no AZ forms.  In fact, when I specifically looked at AZ it shows the last update for tax season was last week on March 23rd.  What is going on here?  Are you planning a special AZ update?  If so, when?

Can you please tell us the TRUTH on this form now?  As in this minute?  Your lack of honesty and transparency is deeply disappointing.

BobKamman
Level 15
March 31, 2022

I haven't had this issue yet but I know it's coming.  What if ALL the taxpayer's income is from an SBI?  Does all of it have to be taxed at 3.5%, or can the lower tax brackets be used for the first dollars?

Maybe that's what the programmers are pondering.  

kgudgelAuthor
Level 4
March 31, 2022

I read the actual legislation before teaching a class on AZ Updates and I recall it said something about if you elected to use the SBI you had to put all your SBI on it.  I was reading it to kind of see whether someone who had perhaps half Schedule C, and then had Schedule E (maybe rental or S-corp) - and interpreted it that they had to put all of it on SBI or none.  So, no I don't think if someone has mostly self-employment that they can put only up to the 4.17% bracket on the 140, and then the rest on the SBI. 

Level 4
March 31, 2022

Yes, I believe it is an all or nothing approach.

April 1, 2022

The 2021 SBI forms (including AZ 140-SBI) are currently in development, there is no ETA at the moment. We suggest planning extensions for these returns since the SBI forms are not yet available. 

Level 8
April 2, 2022

Thank you.  I am reading this to mean sometime before October 17,2022 these forms will be available and fully functional with the ProSeries 2021 tax program.

I am far from the best CPA that there is but I try to take pride in being honest and straight forward with my clients. Unfortunately, ProSeries makes that difficult from time to time by not being forthcoming with information, or providing conflicting information.  I do not want to yet again be put in a situation with my clients because I relied on ProSeries info which turns out to be incorrect. 

BobKamman
Level 15
May 2, 2022

Took a week off, came back to fill out one by hand, find that the software has been updated and now the 140-SBI is available!  What's more, the answer it comes up with is the same as what I found before I noticed the update.  

I think it will take longer to explain to clients why they need to file two returns, and hope the refund on one pays the balance due on the other.  (Actually, there's money left over, but I'm not going to risk a credit-elect.)

Level 5
May 3, 2022

Read the ADOR FAQ's - any overpayment on either 140-SBI or on the 140 - will offset any amount owed on the other one.  The FAQ's came out in April after the court cases killing Prop 208 and validating the new flat rate for 2022.  Of course, when I was filing extensions for SBI clients, we didn't have the FAQ's yet, so I printed an SBI extend form and had the client pay, but that form doesn't exist in ProSeries, so you have to manually enter that on the SBI form.