So what is the ruling? Will the ProSeries Basic program include form 172 in the calculations for 2025?

[dpatterson1171]

Last year (TY 2024) their were understandable delays in releasing Form 172 regarding NOL in the ProSeries BASIC tax program as it was late coming from the IRS.

I'm seeing (and not liking) messages pop up that in 2025 Form 172 will not be supported in the PS BASIC program. 

So my question is:  Will Form 172 and it's calculations be included in the PS BASIC program?  

If the answer is no, I feel the Tax Preparers who purchase this software are being cheated as we continuing to have around 10 to 15% yearly increases and is now the price of what the PS PRO program used to cost and feel that this is an extra burden on us as preparers to navigate through..  I hope it is being added again this year and will be highly disappointed if not.  

[Jim-from-Ohio]

https://accountants.intuit.com/tax-software/proseries/compare-products/?srsltid=AfmBOoqsoH2uomMP7otg...

[dpatterson1171]

Thanks Jim,  I know that it is not in the forms for BASIC  but was not sure if that could still be under construction.  I have a lot of rentals with my clients and since this was there last year I feel cheated if it is being removed and making us do the work.  That is what we pay for using high end software.

So in you opinion then, it will not be part of BASIC this year?  Looking for a yes / no answer from the development team.

[Jim-from-Ohio]

Based on my experience and opinion it won't be part of Basic.. but maybe @Kathi_at_Intuit may know for sure.

[dpatterson1171]

No offense, but for the sake of all of us who have had faith in the ProSeries family of tax programs this would be very disappointing.  The object of paying for expert software is for the program to do the work...not us!  This might be my last year either using this program or just hanging it up all together.

[Jim-from-Ohio]

Is professional that much more in cost?  Another option is for returns where you have an NOL you can use Professional on a pay per return basis. 

[IRonMaN]

At least one member of the ProSeries family will have it, but it isn't exactly an early release form:

Intuit App

[Kathi_at_Intuit]

Hi @Jim-from-Ohio Thanks for the tag. We’ll take a look and see what we can find out. 

[dpatterson1171]

Yes.. It's about another $2,000 on top of BASIC and that only covers 200 returns.  Must get price quote for unlimited which is what I have in the BASIC software.  For the amount of clients I have (265) and the amount of my avg costs/return charged ($95 - live in a small community) that is not feasible.  I'd rather just hang it up after doing taxes and have used Intuit products, including BASIC since 2010 for the 31 years I have been processing returns.  Just not worth the headaches anymore so I hoping this is resolved since it was part of the 2024 BASIC program and ready to kick my feet up and enjoy the winter season doing other things less stressing.  Thanks for your question.  Paying for the Pay per return would not be a cost effective alternative.  

[TaxGuyBill]

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@dpatterson1171 wrote:

 and since this was there last year

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I didn't realized it was there last year. 

Basic has previously never done NOL calculations before, so if it was there last year, it was an anomaly, and possibly a mistake by the programmers.

[sjrcpa]

@dpatterson1171 I agree the software should have it.

But how often do you need it? You mentioned rentals, but most of the time the losses are suspended and shown on Form 8582. Rarely, in my experience, is there an NOL from rental losses.

[dpatterson1171]

2024 the IRS reporting rules changed for reporting form 172 (NOL) and the fact that it can be done, mistake or not, and make us happy should be a reason to keep it. 

I'm not a harsh person at all but this will come up more and more for the BASIC users as the dive into their clients' files.  I am already doing that proactively to save time during tax season. and this is how I am across this message in file review.  Filling out manually and attaching as a pdf is both time consuming and not practical for what we pay.  I did go back into 2024 and form 172 parts 1 and 2 were there and used.

[dpatterson1171]

Need it since 2024 as in 2024 the IRS reporting rules changed for reporting form 172 (NOL) and the fact that it can be done, mistake or not, and make us happy should be a reason to keep it.

Here is what I just googled and the reply to that form:

Yes, the rules for reporting IRS Form 172 changed in 2024. The IRS introduced Form 172 specifically for individuals, estates, and trusts to report net operating losses (NOLs). This form is used to calculate and report NOLs for non-corporate taxpayers, which occurs when allowable tax deductions exceed taxable income.
The changes include the elimination of the carryback of NOLs for most taxpayers, with exceptions for farming losses. Farming losses can be carried back to two tax years, and taxpayers can choose to carry forward their NOLs to the following year.
Form 172 is essential for documenting and managing NOLs, and it must be filed with the federal tax return to ensure the NOL is correctly reported and utilized. The form's introduction is part of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017, which aimed to streamline the process of reporting NOLs and provide more flexibility for taxpayers

[sjrcpa]

@dpatterson1171 I know all that. My question to you was how often do you actually need it when rental losses are usually on Form 8582 and do not create NOLs.

[dpatterson1171]

I have used that several times in the past year for people selling rentals at a gain and using the NOL c/o losses to offset.   Regardless the message says to attach in a pdf file with the return.  I'm sorry if everyone wants to question this but if it was there last year why the problem?  My guess is that it would important anytime there is a profit with prior year NOL's.

[sjrcpa]

I think you have/had PALs not NOLs.

[dpatterson1171]

Maybe I'm not the greatest at this either but I know that BASIC is telling me to complete form 172 on my rental clients and attach them as a pdf file when last year I did not have to do that with the form included.

Just hoping and asking that they reconsider and add it back this year to prevent the headaches it's telling me I have to go through.

[TaxGuyBill]

As Jim's first link pointed out, Intuit says that Basic does not have support for NOLs.  Maybe they changed that and just haven't updated that page, but I doubt it.

It seems like they mistakenly added it to Basic in 2024 because of the new form.

Rather than feeling cheated, you should feel that you received a 'bonus' in 2024 by getting something the software was not supposed to have.

As far as the "headache", if I remember correctly, you were always supposed to attach a computation of NOLs to the return.  The only 'new' thing is that rather than manually creating the computation, it is now on an official form (Form 172).  But I think attaching the computation has always been required.

[dpatterson1171]

Thanks and I appreciate your feedback.  However, I still feel for the price of the program and the fact it can be added (again), that it should part of BASIC.  That mind frame of mine will not change.  This is the 1st that I am "officially" hearing that it will not be supported, and I cannot say that I don't find that disappointing.  The other statement did not give me the opinion that it still was not verified by a member of the development team as someone else on the link was to verify that with a member of the development team and report back.  That as of yet, did not occur.

[Kathi_at_Intuit]

Hello All, Thanks for keeping this conversation going! We haven’t forgotten about you. Our development team is still reviewing. We appreciate your patience and will update this thread as soon as we have more information.

[IRonMaN]

@dpatterson1171  - It's kind of sad that evidently Intuit really isn't sure yet whether or not the form is going to be available in Basic.

[TaxGuyBill]

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@dpatterson1171 wrote:

 However, I still feel for the price of the program and the fact it can be added (again),

This is the 1st that I am "officially" hearing that it will not be supported, 

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If Basic had all of the features as Professional, there would be no need for Intuit to make two separate programs.  The purpose of Professional having more items is to have preparers want to 'upgrade' to get those features.

Basic has never supported NOLs and the comparison page has ALWAYS said that.  If this is the first time you are "officially" hearing that, you must not looked at why there are two different programs (Basic and Professional) and randomly choose Basic without looking into the differences.

[dpatterson1171]

I'm not trying to get into an argument with you over this so please just let it rest.  I brought up a question for Intuit to answer.  Maybe this was not the right place but finding their number to call is not always easy to find.  It was mentioned that the question is being presented to the development team to review so let's just wait to see what they say.  2024 brought on new rules to the 172 form so perhaps they will consider it again this year whether it was a mistake or not, the work was done. I'm sure there are enough other differences btw the programs.  I am a single preparer with 265 clients and live in a small community (not a large city) where my avg charge is $90 / return being respect full to my clients at my expense. I will quit doing taxes before I pay for the Professional program as it's not worth my cost and effort to do taxes.  So please...just let them find out what they decide and report back here.  I'm not a confrontation type person but I'm tired of adding comments to justify why you may use the better program that may suit you business model.  I just want to wait and see what they decide and report here.  In all sincerity, Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!  

[TaxGuyBill]

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@dpatterson1171 wrote:

I'm not trying to get into an argument with you over this so please just let it rest. 

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I'm sorry; I didn't mean for it to be an argument or cause any tension.

I hope it works out for you.

[dpatterson1171]

No Worries.  Just looking for a final resolution to the question.  Thank you.  We're all here for the same purpose and that's to do taxes accurately and the best of our abilities with the least amount of effort!  

[Kathi_at_Intuit]

Hi @dpatterson1171 thanks for your patience. We’re still waiting on confirmation for this form, and we’ll post an update as soon as we have one.

[Kathi_at_Intuit · Accepted solution]

Hi @dpatterson1171 Good news—Form 172 is confirmed for TY25 ProSeries Basic. Also, we really appreciate everyone’s patience while we worked through this!

[dpatterson1171]

Thank you Kathi for your due diligence into this matter.  I am extremely happy that Intuit is taking the initiative to do it again.  Much appreciated!

Thank you!

Dave

[Kathi_at_Intuit]

@dpatterson1171 You're very welcome! We're glad we could provide the clarity and initiative you were hoping for. We truly appreciate your continued partnership and look forward to seeing you around the Community.

[dpatterson1171]

Thank you again and wishing you all a very Merry Christmas and Blessed New Year!

[Kathi_at_Intuit]

@dpatterson1171 Thanks so much! You too, wishing you a smooth and successful tax season as well. 🙂