Considering a switch to UltraTax ?

[Valeton]

Can anyone comment on what your liked or disliked about ultratax compare to lacerte or proseries. My quote from ultra tax is almost 5k less than lacerte.

Thanks

[PhoebeRoberts]

It's been a long time since I looked - maybe as many as 10 years. 

- The learning curve is really, really steep. If you haven't been using Lacerte very long, or if you feel like you still have a lot to learn, this might not be such a big deal. I'm pretty sure I know where most of Lacerte's bodies are buried, and I have really good notes telling me how to step around them, or how to kick the dirt back over them when they reach out and grab me despite my best efforts.

- UltraTax doesn't do oil & gas as well as Lacerte, and I think their O&G module might be an additional-cost add-on. Part of this is familiarity, but part of it is that if you don't mind the dollar rounding, you can run a full-fledged property-by-property depletion schedule in Lacerte, and it'll do it right, even if you've got weird stuff. UltraTax had at the time I looked at it a much less robust O&G module.

- Lacerte does a reasonably good job of the state returns I do.
Oklahoma used to have a $100 kickout for interest income, which Lacerte interpreted as "any interest is eligible" and handled automatically. UltraTax required special coding on every piece of interest on every return to count it as eligible. (If you know when OK stopped doing that kickout, it was a couple years earlier that I was looking at UT.)
The answer to "I have a trust that files in CA and OK, and has both CA and OK muni interest; how do I enter that" was "you set up a separate line-item for each unique combination of payor and state, because you can only have one state-exempt amount for each line." In Lacerte, you hit Ctrl+E, enter the 20 states you file in any the interest that's exempt for each one, and move on to the next payor.

- UltraTax has no handy workaround for freebie what-ifs. My client technically has a filing requirement in 20 states, and wants to know how much the tax liability would be in each one? In Lacerte, you copy the file, change the SSN to a string of 9s, add all those states, plunk in your 20 numbers in the state source column, REP for a $0 charge, and look at the Tax Summary - it takes maybe 10 extra minutes and no cash. My recollection was that in UltraTax, you pay the REP if you want to see the form.

- My recollection is that UT lets you see all your returns in one screen, rather than having to swap between types. Which is awesome and amazing and would mean I wouldn't have a reminder on my board that says "take Client X a duplicate copy of the e-file page for their 990 when you take the rest of the stuff in October, because you forgot that they hadn't returned it when you saw them in September, you big dummy."

I will say that it was 100% worth getting a freebie copy of UltraTax (this time of year, or after 10/15 at the worst, you shouldn't have a problem getting an evaluation copy of the 2019 software at no charge) and recreating a bunch of returns. Start with a single non-dependent with one W-2; work up to the worst return you have. At some point it will become painfully obvious which the right answer is (and your right answer will probably be based on entirely different considerations than mine was!), and if it's that switching is the right choice, you'll already know how to use the new software and won't have to worry about reviewing converted files for a chunk of your clients.

[TaxGuyBill]

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@Valeton wrote:

My quote from ultra tax is almost 5k less than lacerte.

Did you ask if that price is only for new users?  You need to find out what the price will be after the introductory period (which is sometimes one year, sometimes 3 years or more).

Knowing the long-term price after the introductory period might influence your decision one way or the other.

[Valeton]

Yes, Its a 3 year period, 1st year payment  is less than $1k, 2nd and 3rd is around $7k each year with auto payment.  I get unlimited individual and business plus 3 states, very hard to pass on than offer. 

[TaxGuyBill]

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@Valeton wrote:

Yes, Its a 3 year period, 1st year payment  is less than $1k, 2nd and 3rd is around $7k each year with auto payment.  I get unlimited individual and business plus 3 states, very hard to pass on than offer. 

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But don't go on price alone.  Actually, I wouldn't recommend basing it on the cost savings of the introductory period at all (although cost savings after that may be a good consideration).

Remember, it will be a steep "learning curve" to learn new software.  So it will take a considerable amount of your time, energy and frustration to switch.  

[TaxGuyBill]

One other thought ... after test-driving UltraTax, if you determine that you are willing to switch, you may consider asking the Lacerte salesman if they are willing to counter-offer.

[Valeton]

Yes I did, 3 times and all said to me that the best quote I can get for the same package is around $12k for the next 3 years. I would like to avoid that bloody learning curve and I had been asking not to match but I at least to get a better offer.

[Valeton]

I know but this would be my first full year with Lacerte, I have been using ProSeries Tax Library and Lacerte PPR for the complex tax returns, but my complex returns had been increasing and getting the unlimited packages makes the most sense plus just work with one software.

[sjrcpa]

I haven't looked in a while either (since 2015), but from my email:

UltraTax pluses:

Offers a lot more composite nonresident returns than Lacerte

Offers more state estate tax returns and state exempt org UBIT returns than Lacerte

Integration with Thomson Reuters Creative Solutions Accounting trial balance software

MD Personal Property Tax return is an available option, for a fee.

Minuses:

The printed returns look like crap compared to Lacerte

No Missing Data flagging

Only one person can be in a tax return at one time (no looking while someone else is working)

Government forms instructions are not readily available from within the program.

You have to enter the ERO PIN in every tax return

A lot of informational forms are designated as "noncalculating". Meaning, for example, you must enter taxpayer name, address and ID # umpteen times on a 5471.

Won't produce 2 gift tax returns for gift splitting from 1 file.

They don't offer a fixed price for returns of all types/all states, so it would cost us more than Lacerte.

I agree with everything Phoebe said.

[Pacific CPA]

We tried to switch last year as price was a real issue. There are some real headaches in BOTH platforms that you will have to adopt to either system one way or another.  The real issue in the end for us was the data migration - or really the lack of it.  What Ultratax said would transfer over vs what really came over were miles apart.  Error logs did not always spell out missed items.  When we asked for assistance from our integration "expert" kept referring us back to the logs and guide published by Thomson as to what should migrate and what did not.  He could never answer any questions when something that should have worked failed.  He also specified things we would not be able to do but they actually would.  We were told that they had grown so rapidly that they had many new people that were not up to speed with their otherwise incredible service.  Unfortunately their data migration comes out VERY late in the year so by the time you know what is really going on it might be late to switch back.  I would say be prepared to be redoing many things especially if you have complex returns.  Thompson's software suite as whole is feeling quite dated as is Lacerte and depending how long you are going to be in the business you may want to look elsewhere including Proconnect.  

[qbteachmt]

You already have this topic running here:

https://proconnect.intuit.com/community/proseries-tax-discussions/discussion/lacerte-or-ultra-tax-cs...

There's no reason to ask duplicate on the same issue. Thanks.

[billsh79605]

I switched in 2014 to save money.  The learning curve was steep and I thought the product inferior to Lacerte.  Lacerte offered me a much better deal to come back.  You might try and negotiate with Lacerte before you leave.

[DanaCPAtax]

I worked for a firm that said it was a "no brainer" leaving Lacerte for UltraTax - a 50% savings. I had used Lacerte for over 10 years when I was introduced to UltraTax, the learning curve was very quick. A big benefit is you can see ALL your clients on One Screen. A drawback, you can only have one tax year open at a time; however, you can see a screen that shows prior year's numbers. You can also generate a PDF copy of the prior year return for viewing while you prepare the current year.

UltraTax, in my opinion, has much better tech support. I always got my issues resolved with UltraTax techs. Now, working for a CPA using ProSeries/Intuit, my issues have not been resolved by their help. Reinstalling the software did not produce a permanent fix and no other solutions were offered. I had to go to this Intuit Community to try different things to resolve my issues myself. I could not figure out why the ProSeries login screen would freeze up and not let me in. They checked my account and authorization - all clear.  I took off my antivirus and firewall - that did not resolve the login issue. The only way I could login was to uninstall and reinstall the software on a daily basis, which is NOT acceptable. I spent HOURS and DAYS over a two week (from Aug 4 to Aug 17, 2022) troubleshooting on my own, not able to work, NOT getting paid - wondering how I was going to meet next months bills. 

My CPA had to elevate us to the more expensive ProSeries Networking platform so I could actually get her work done.  After we made the switch from desktop to network version, all of a sudden, with no actionable help from the ProSeries system manager or myself, I was miraculously able to login to ProSeries desktop version.  My CPA does not want to take the chance that PS desktop will not allow me to login again. I couldn't log in for TWO WEEKS from Aug 4 to Aug 17, 2022.

I sent an email to the systems manager and three C-suite executives on 8/30/22 about my experience.

Alex Chriss, Executive Vice President and General Manager, Small Business and Self Employed Group

Mark Notarainni, Executive Vice President, Chief Customer Success Officer

Marianna Tessel, Executive Vice President, Chief Technology Officer

I had also experience getting the "run around" with tech support while using Lacerte/Intuit software. Finally in 2018, I decided to not use Lacerte ever again. As I said, now I work for a CPA using ProSeries/Intuit, and it's a Déjà Vu all over again. I hope she switches to UltraTax for next tax season - saving lots of money, headaches and stress.  Hope this review helps you and possibly others considering making the switch away.

[DanaCPAtax]

Not true, missing data is Flagged if it was in PY return.

It's worth asking Thomson Reuters UltraTax yourself if the improvements have been made. 

Especially since you will have a 50% savings at least.

[DanaCPAtax]

During which tax years did you use UltraTax?

How long have you used Lacerte?