Stupid question so even stupid answers will be accepted

[IRonMaN]

I was just reading a question on gift tax reporting and it made me think of something else about gift tax return reporting.  So you have a client kick the bucket with an estate sizable enough to warrant filing an estate return.  What if you think that there were gift tax returns prepared in the past (prior to your time) and the client never kept them?  Is there some type of IRS transcript request when you have no idea if something was gifted 20 or 30 years ago?

[TaxGuyBill]

I've wondered that too.  From what I have read, there is not anything that we could access.

But I suspect that the IRS has that information somewhere.  Maybe it is stored on one of their newer computers that they bought in 1978.

[IRonMaN]

"I've wondered that too"

Sounds like it might be a Minnesota thing to think about.😀

[BobKamman · Accepted solution]

4.25.1.3.1 (07-07-2020)

Obtaining Historical Gift Tax Returns (Form 709)

1. Historical gift tax returns are stored at a consolidated site in Independence, MO referred to as the C-Site.

2. A document locator number (DLN) is assigned to a Form 709 at the time of processing. While gift tax returns are stored in Alpha order at the C-Site, they are stored in DLN order in Files, where current year returns are housed.

3. Gift Tax returns are temporarily stored until the donor is deceased at which time they are either associated with the estate tax return or scheduled for destruction if no estate tax return is required.

4. IDRS research must be conducted prior to submitting a request for a historical gift tax return. Using Command Code MFTRA Type C, verify the record for the gift tax return shows a transaction code (TC) 150 posting indicating a tax return has been filed. If a TC 421 is present on the account, the controlling DLN will appear next to it on the transcript.

5. For older returns, the MFTRA transcript may indicate that the MFT 51 has been removed to retention. An offline Retention Register is an account module that has been removed from Master File and stored on microfilm. If a Retention Register is needed, complete Sections 1-5 of Form 3774 and process as follows:

For the rest of it see Internal Revenue Manual at

https://www.irs.gov/irm/part4/irm_04-025-001#idm140195989070192 

[IRonMaN]

Thanks Bob.  Now Bill and I can get a good nights sleep.

[sjrcpa]

How do I secure a gift tax return or account transcript?

Form 4506, Request for Copy of Tax ReturnPDF, is used to request a copy of previously filed tax returns with all attachments. Form 4506-T, Request for Transcript of ReturnPDF,  is used to request a transcript of the gift tax returns filed by a donor. Both forms and their instructions are available on IRS.gov. Forms 4506 and 4506-T have multiple uses and special attention must be taken when completing either form for a gift tax inquiry.

The IRS will provide a copy of a gift tax return or the gift tax return transcript when Form 4506 or Form 4506-T is properly completed and submitted with substantiation and payment. Upon receipt and verification (including matching current taxpayer and taxpayer representative records), a copy of the original tax return or the account transcript will be mailed as requested. Incomplete or unsubstantiated requests will be rejected, and a Notice will be sent to the Requestor. There is a $50.00 fee per tax return requested; ne fees apply to transcript requests.

For more detailed information on requesting a gift tax return or a gift tax account transcript, see Frequently Asked Questions on Gift Taxes on IRS.gov.

[IRonMaN]

Thanks Susan.  I tend to shy away from estate tax returns, but I still wondered about the issue.

[garman22]

where the hell do you find shit like that? Thats impressive............

[IRonMaN]

That's why I post responses to things like "where is the PA form that hasn't changed in 150 years" and leave the real tax questions to the smart people here 😉

[garman22]

hahaha!! I didnt even know you could go that far back on gift tax returns. Id be like "hell if I know".............😂🤣

[sjrcpa]

I will admit I've never requested.

Most of my clients who file gift tax reyurns do so on a regukar, if not annual basis.

Last time I needed some - for a 95 year old woman's taxable estate, I had the last 10 years or so only. I definitely had the last one filed which gave me what I needed. I attached the ones I had to the 706. No questions asked. I got a closing letter.

[IRonMaN]

I have a couple of elderly clients that I thought the question might pertain to, but since I generally stay away from estate returns, it was more of a curiosity of mine rather than a "I really need to know" thought.  

Thanks to everybody who played along today.

[TaxGuyBill]

Thanks for the information about getting past returns!  I didn't think you could do that for Gift Tax returns.