Form 433-D vs. Form 9465

[Pat W]

I requested an installment plan for a client last year using Form 9465, and the IRS sent her a Form 433-D to fill out instead. The client will need an installment plan for their 2020 taxes, as well. But I can't find a 433-D in ProSeries. Do I just fill out the Form 9465 again and fill in the remaining old balance on Line 6?

And why don't clients pay estimated taxes when you give them vouchers?!?

[qbteachmt]

Did you use the googles?

who sends form 433-d

"Form 433-D is the basic installment agreement, while Form 9465 is the Installment Agreement Request. This form allows the IRS to set up automatic payments with a taxpayer. ... It affords the taxpayer a lower user fee than a regular agreement."

So, you would Request the agreement (9465) and then, the IRS responds (433-D).

[Pat W]

Thanks –  I saw that same explanation on Google, but the source is pdffiller.com, and I don’t really consider them to be an authoritative source. I was unable to find similar wording on the IRS website. 

Prior to this particular situation, I’ve never had a client tell me that they received a form 433-D from the IRS in order to complete their installment plan.

Having said that, my research was somewhat limited because it was at the end of a very long day.

[qbteachmt]

"I was unable to find similar wording on the IRS website."

It's just setting up the payment. The text for this is all over the IRS, but in various places and steps.

"It is only when your information has been reviewed and approved that you can finally fill out and submit IRS 433-D."

From: https://silvertaxgroup.com/guide-433-d-installment-agreement/

"I’ve never had a client tell me that they received a form 433-D from the IRS in order to complete their installment plan."

It is for that specific payment method. if they don't want to do it that way, don't use that form.

Have you read the various 433- instructions? An installment plan, how to submit for it, and the fees involved will vary depending on business or personal, amount owed, and how it is or is to be paid. Also, if the person applies for any waivers or forgiveness, such as being below the poverty line. And the various application methods carry differing fees. You typically want to use the least expensive application and payment processes, if you can do so. And that's why you use 433-D. The 433-D is the Payment details; it reduces the fees if using this method.

From: https://www.irs.gov/payments/payment-plans-installment-agreements#costs

What are payment plan costs and fees?

If the IRS approves your payment plan (installment agreement), one of the following fees will be added to your tax bill. Changes to user fees are effective for installment agreements entered into on or after April 10, 2018. For individuals, balances over $25,000 must be paid by Direct Debit. For businesses, balances over $10,000 must be paid by Direct Debit.

Apply online through the Online Payment Agreement tool or apply by phone or by mail by submitting Form 9465, Installment Agreement Request.

Pay Now

Short-term Payment Plan

Long-term Payment Plan (Installment Agreement)

Change an Existing Payment Plan

Note: If making a debit/credit card payment, processing fees apply. Processing fees go to a payment processor and limits apply.

[Pat W]

Thanks for the information - I've read all of that. I still wish the template was in ProSeries so we could pre-fill it for our client, instead of them receiving a blank form from the IRS to fill out manually. As I said in my initial post, this is the first client I've had who received the 433-D after filing a Form 9465 for an Installment Agreement Request. So, why are some set up directly from the 9465, while other are done using a 433-D?

"The text for this is all over the IRS, but in various places and steps". As I pointed out, I did a quick search at the end of a very long day. 

"If they don't want to do it that way, don't use the form". I didn't say they don't want to do it that way. I simply want to be more helpful to my client, by filling out that form using ProSeries and print it for them to sign and send. 

[qbteachmt]

"instead of them receiving a blank form from the IRS to fill out manually."

And the form instructions tell you that if it didn't come with some of your info filled in by the IRS, you fill it in.

"As I said in my initial post, this is the first client I've had who received the 433-D after filing a Form 9465 for an Installment Agreement Request. So, why are some set up directly from the 9465, while other are done using a 433-D?"

Because it has to do with the Payment. This is what I put last week: "This form allows the IRS to set up automatic payments with a taxpayer. ... It affords the taxpayer a lower user fee than a regular agreement."

And you see what I copied here are links for various ways to make the payment.

There are various fees and costs for the process of getting and fulfilling the installment process. This happens to be one of them.

"by filling out that form using ProSeries and print it for them to sign and send."

Okay, let's try it like this: Think of a Bank. You set up payment Terms, amounts, frequency of withdrawal, and how much to be taken each time, with the bank by ACH. That's the same concept as this form. They are signing up for the Payment processing. It's not an income tax issue, now. It's a Liability issue, now.

Every link I gave you goes somewhere different, and if you really want to do a deep dive on this, you can see all the different costs, and how some of them can be waived or the  client can apply to have them waived, or use a different payment method to reduce fees, or apply online vs paper, or fax instead of mail. All of this is like a menu. That's why it is all in different places, with lots of links, for IRS.

[steelyfan247]

Hey Pat, I had the same questions as you, and the information is very hard to find, and the person didn't answer your questions at all, but just proceeded to get an awful attitude with you for some reason, so I feel your pain. I think you have to do 433-D if it's over a certain amount or something. Good luck!

[Accountant-Man]

The IRS requires the 433 series only when the debt is over $50,000. And you cannot e-file with a 9465 when the debt is over $50,000.

[Pat W]

Thank you! The other person made it seem like I was the only one who couldn't find the answer from "the Google", lol. I now know that it's for balances over $50,000, but oddly enough, my client only owed about $42,000 and the IRS made her file the 433-D. So I don't know what was up with that, and that's what was confusing.

My main issue was that it isn't available on ProSeries (like the 9465 is), and that's a bit frustrating. Maybe they'll eventually change that. I get that there probably aren't all that many people whose past due balance goes over $50k, but it would be nice to have it available to provide to the client. While you can fill in the 433-D on the computer in PDF format, it doesn't line up properly and doesn't look very professional...

Good luck to you too, and thanks for your compassionate response 🙂

[Pat W]

Thanks for the reply!

Oddly enough, my client only owed about $42k, but the IRS required the 433-D. In any event, I hope ProSeries starts including it as a form that we can fill in for the client instead of the handwritten or misaligned PDF version that you get when you fill it in on the computer. I wasn't looking to e-file the 433-D - I just wanted to be able to fill it out for her to sign and send.