Welcome back! Ask questions, get answers, and join our large community of tax professionals.
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

4 Consecutive Farm Losses

dr58lj15
Level 3

I have a client who has had a farm for the last 4 years.   There has been 4 consecutive Losses in a row.  He still has cows that are not fully deprecated yet.  There was no income this year at all.  Should I mark on the Schedule F that some investments is not at risk, so this loss is not recorded for this year?   If so, will that loss move to next year's as a carryover with hopes he will have income coming in?

0 Cheers
5 Comments 5
BobKamman
Level 15

He can have losses 25 years in a row and still claim them.  And that's what many taxpayers have done, although usually it involves horses because "gentleman farmers" prefer them to cattle.  Showing a profit helps the taxpayer overcome the burden of proving it's a business.  Having a loss doesn't help IRS any more than the cards they already hold.  

Terry53029
Level 15
Level 15
Maybe its a hobby. While consistent losses can be a red flag, they don't automatically mean the farm is a hobby, especially if there's a reasonable expectation of future profitability. If he is working the farm full time, and is trying to make a profit I would take the loss, and not say some investments not at risk, as that would not help his case if IRS starts asking if it is a business. Also keep good records 
BobKamman
Level 15

@Terry53029  You know the origin of the "red flag" expression?  Back when paper returns were mailed to IRS district offices, those of IRS employees were literally "red flagged."  In recent years people who know nothing about IRS return processing but get paid to write something, often have used the "red flag" expression in relation to returns claiming office in home.  Not so much of that anymore, since it was taken away from employees.  But it's absurd (or maybe just wishful thinking)  to think that IRS computers are capable of analyzing one taxpayer over a period of three or four years, to sort out those with consecutive losses.  They're not able in many cases to do document matching for a single year.  

Much of the Internal Revenue Code is written in plain English.  Here is what Section 183(d) says.   Why someone turns it around to mean "IRS gets to presume it's a hobby unless you show a profit in three years," is beyond me.  

"If the gross income derived from an activity for 3 or more of the taxable years in the period of 5 consecutive taxable years which ends with the taxable year exceeds the deductions attributable to such activity (determined without regard to whether or not such activity is engaged in for profit), then, unless the Secretary establishes to the contrary, such activity shall be presumed for purposes of this chapter for such taxable year to be an activity engaged in for profit.

Terry53029
Level 15
Level 15

Thanks for the info Bob. I do believe the IRS has items that flag a return (what ever color the flag is) In past years I worked with an ex IRS agent, and he had said one flag was consistence losses. Not sure how the IRS collected the info now or then, but it seems reasonable that a consistent  loss would raise questions. Maybe just pulled at random, and looked at. That is why I replied to original poster to take loss if client was truly in business

0 Cheers
TaxGuyBill
Level 15

No, the "At-Risk" rules have NOTHING to do with continual losses or not.

As was mentioned, you could need to look at the business vs hobby rules, looking at the "nine factors" (see link).  However, farms VERY often runs losses for many years, so that is very common.

https://www.journalofaccountancy.com/issues/2013/oct/20138370/