I don't understand why I can't E-file an FBAR (Form 114) with an account with a zero balance. Zero balance accounts needs to be reported, so why does it prevent you?

[itonewbie · Accepted solution]

Agree with you that account with zero balance could be reportable for FBAR purposes.  Could you please provide more facts and explain what you meant when you say PTO prevent you from filing the FBAR?

[bradschumann3]

PTO Gives you a critical diagnostic that prevents E-filing if you enter an FBAR Account with a zero balance

[itonewbie]

So long as the taxpayer has an obligation to report because of the other accounts, just check off the diagnostic to ignore it.

[IRonMaN]

Round up to one dollar?

[bradschumann3]

It actually is a diagnostic you can't check off to ignore, and customer support told me that it would get rejected apparently...

I'm inclined to just round it up to one dollar, but that's not actually accurate.

[itonewbie]

@Intuit Austin Could you please take a look at this?  I know my clients wouldn't like to indicate a dollar when the maximum balance is actually zero, regardless of whether there is any impact.

[IRonMaN]

Yeah that dollar is way overstating a zero balance account ------------------- half of America is going to be up all night worrying about that major overstatement :worried:

[bradschumann3]

@IRonMaN  The problem is that FBAR's carry a steep $10,000 minimum penalty, so it's not really something you want to mess with at all....

[IRonMaN]

$10,000 penalty because of a $1 difference?

[itonewbie]

No, $1 doesn't make a difference but some clients are sticklers and question why the professional products we use can't even do something as simple as what what they amateur software can do.

[itonewbie]

@bradschumann3 The chance of this happening in reality is getting slimmer and slimmer.  In the age of FATCA and CRS, most banks will probably close inactive accounts with zero balance after a reasonable period unless these are sub-accounts, in which case, those would generally be reportable under the main account and do not need to be separately stated.

[IntuitAustin]

@itonewbie I'm taking a look into this.

[itonewbie]

Thank you, Austin!

[mark3]

@Intuit Austin any update on this? Kind of important.

[jon]

Lacerete too. Any updates on reporting $0 balance account? I am not able to print return w/ critical diagnostic.  Solution for #2049917 did not work either.

[Jaye]

How did this problem end up please...?

I'm facing the same problem now...

[LesEdy]

According to the FBAR official instructions

https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/shared/FBAR%20Line%20Item%20Filing%20Instructions.pdf

they say:

Monetary amounts: When recording the maximum value of accounts, record all amounts as
U.S. Dollar amounts rounded up to the next whole dollar. The amount $15,265.25 would be
recorded as $15,266. The maximum value of the account can be determined using the following
steps. NOTE: After determining the value of the account, as described below, if the value results in a negative (minus) value, enter zero (0) in item 15, “Maximum account value.”

Observations:

1) When I occasionally use the FinCEN PDF file and upload directly, I have NO trouble putting zero for maximum balance and it goes through fine

2) Even the instructions clearly contemplate (e.g., in the case of a negative value of the account) that a zero (0) would be entered. So it must be possible to enter a zero for this case. What are we supposed to do if "the value results in a negative (minus) value", still put $1, even though the instructions clearly say to enter zero??!!

3) I do not know whether the Proseries/Intuit problem with a zero balance is a Intuit problem, or a FinCEN problem, but the ultimate XML file uploaded to FinCEN is the same, whether submitted online via the FinCEN PDF file or from Intuit's servers (which are programmed to create the requisite XML file for discrete or batch filing). So I do not believe the zero issue is a FinCEN issue, but rather an Intuit issue, i.e., that they have programmed our user interface to reject zeros. And why is that? Well, probably because someone REALLY clever at Intuit interprets the language "record all amounts as
U.S. Dollar amounts rounded up to the next whole dollar" as requiring zero to be rounded up to $1. Last time I had a math course, zero did not round up to 1. Maybe 1 cent rounds up to $1, but not zero. Zero is zero, already very round. Not to mention a negative balance account is required by the instructions to be marked at zero.

The question is, would someone at Intuit/Proseries actually address this issue, i.e., an answer by "professionals" for us professionals? Would that be too much to ask, considering we together are paying millions in fees to Intuit? I tend to doubt anyone will say anything, we send our data into a black box, and we complain to an unattended altar.

[LesEdy]

@IntuitAustin in December 2019 you said you'd look into this, but you never got back to the forum, how about now? see the other post I just wrote in the same thread

[ahsu512]

Can the Lacerte development team please allow zeros to be put in to their fields? I also have this problem and we need to report the zero bank balance and no, my clients do not want to put in $1 when the account is not funded and is $0. The difference is the account having been funded vs. not funded.

We cannot mail in Form 114 and it has to be e-filed.  The e-file diagnostic does not allow for e-filing when we put in zero balance.