Half hour

[Jim-from-Ohio]

As we have gotten closer to deadline I shorted my bookings from every 45 minutes to ever half hour.. last client came in.. on time.. not early.. not late.. thought. no problem.. retirees, SS income, some investment income, 1099-R's. no problem for half hour.. then they pull out three sets of returns.. their adult children.. W-2s, 1099 DIVs.. I was still able to get them all done in a half hour but when they pulled out three returns I was oh boy.. how can I get these done in a half hour, but I did.. now next client was due at 4:30and it is 4:30 now, almost 4:31.. my system needs people on time. 

[jeffmcpa2010]

This is why I don't do returns with the clients in the room.

No way in Heck do I want clients to know I can do 4 returns in a half an hour at a couple of hundred a pop.

[IRonMaN]

I don't do it because having a client blabbing at you  steady while you are trying to do a return just means a bigger likelihood of making mistakes.

[Jim-from-Ohio]

I tried it both ways.. in person or not.. so many questions come up if not present though and I would have to make two appointments with questions in between.  Never really had a problem with the fees or feeling funny about it as I know what the competition charges and I think they know also.  But I can see your point of view. 

[Jim-from-Ohio]

understood about the gabbing.. I think my clients follow my lead.. very little conversation out of tax talk.. I may say hi, welcome.. nice to see you.. and then I say, let's see what you have going on this year.

[rbynaker]

Depends on the complexity of your average return too.  I think I can count on my fingers how many clients I have that can be done in under 30 minutes.  Heck, due diligence usually takes me 20 minutes to get through if there are CTCs.

[dkh]

half hour - signed sealed delivered?   Or half hour you've done the return and staff does the copies and assembly ?

[Jim-from-Ohio]

my staff is just me.. all in a half hour 

[dkh]

well...boy do I feel inadequate

[Jim-from-Ohio]

just that to me part of tax prep is like ping pong.. reflexes.. knowing what to click.. move around, quick zoom, click... enter figures.. move to next issue.. and my returns times include a thorough review.. .like if there are three W-2s of course i enter them one at a time but part of my review process is that i take my ten-key and add up the box one's for all three w-2's and make sure that ties out to the 1040 wage line.. I do that for every line on the 1040, I tie it out.. part of the reflex is plain typing.. i am so glad i took typing in college I can input really quick.. typing may have been one of the best classes I ever took. 

[PATAX]

@rbynaker you hit the nail on the head about the due diligence. In my opinion there is no way you can do a return in less than an HOUR OR TWO HOURS OR MORE with due diligence. Just my opinion.

[BobKamman]

One client blabbing I can handle.  Joint return, no way.  Two against one.  

[rbynaker]

Tangent (sorry Jim):  I had a referral for a new client last year.  She paid $500 for her 2019 return (big CPA firm) but they sent her a letter telling her the minimum was going up to $800 for 2020.  She went to her fiance's CPA (where I used to work when I got out of college).  They now have a minimum $700 so one of the partners gave her my contact info.  As a favor to him I met with her.  She literally had one W-2 and one 1099-INT.  No kids.  No itemized deductions.  I felt guilty charging my minimum of $180 but from her perspective that was such a great deal!  I spent more time just entering and checking her basic info (name, address, ssn, dob, license #, etc.) than entering any of the 2020 numbers.  So yeah, if all of my returns were like that, I could handle 30-minute sessions.

[IRonMaN]

Meeting with a client, preparing a return, reviewing a return, and assembling a return in a half hour would be pushing the limit for me unless all you are dealing with is someone with a couple of W-2s.  Taking an hour or two for the same return for someone with kids that you have known the someone for years is probably not necessary either.  But then again, I have been doing this for 40+ years and am set in my ways.  I'm not going to judge anybody for not taking enough time or taking too much time.  We each have our own practices and we each do what we think is necessary. 

[BobKamman]

@Jim-from-Ohio You waited till college to learn keyboarding?  Must have been riding the short bus in high school  

[IRonMaN]

But Bob, it wasn't called keyboarding when we learned it in school.  It was called typing ------------- on a typewriter ---------------- something that the keyboarding kids in school these days have no idea what in the world one is.

[rbynaker]

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@IRonMaN wrote:

But Bob, it wasn't called keyboarding when we learned it in school.  It was called typing ------------- on a typewriter ---------------- something that the keyboarding kids in school these days have no idea what in the world one is.

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I'm younger than most here but I was one of the last of the "typing" generations.  But at least we had fancy IBM Selectric typewriters with the built-in "backspace" wite-out ribbon.  Two years later the class was called keyboarding.

I also got the last CPA exam where you were locked in a gym for 3 days and couldn't bring a calculator.  I remember having to write out a Statement of Stockholders' Equity from scratch, by hand.  Good times.

[PATAX]

@rbynaker 👍wow...thanks a million for that information about the minimum fees that others charge... I'll know what to say the next time some idiot complains about my fees, which are reasonable, but may be going up...

[IRonMaN]

I sat for the exam in the Minneapolis National Guard Armory in 1979.  The last morning of the exam sirens were going off all over the armory because the NORAD system decided that the Russians were sending nuclear missiles our way.  You sit for an exam for 2 days and on the third day we are going to get blown up?  Where is the justice in that?  Blow us up on the first morning or leave us alone.

[rbynaker]

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@IRonMaN wrote:

I sat for the exam in the Minneapolis National Guard Armory in 1979.  The last morning of the exam sirens were going off all over the armory because the NORAD system decided that the Russians were sending nuclear missiles our way.  You sit for an exam for 2 days and on the third day we are going to get blown up?  Where is the justice in that?  Blow us up on the first morning or leave us alone.

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Ah, so your exam was proctored by a retired Drill Sergeant.  The ultimate test is how the CPA candidate performs under fire.

Or you should have played Tic-Tac-Toe with Joshua before sitting for the exam.

[Camp1040]

When I first moved to the south I was told the first 15 minutes of any business dealing is talking about hunting and fishing, then you can move on to business.

I couldn't keep to that tradition for long, especially since I don't hunt or fish!

[IRonMaN]

But that shouldn't have been an issue.  Most people that hunt and fish want to tell you how well they did hunting and fishing, they really don't want to hear your stories ------------------ unless you have a really good tip on where the fish are really biting.

[rbynaker]

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@PATAX wrote:

@rbynaker 👍wow...thanks a million for that information about the minimum fees that others charge... I'll know what to say the next time some idiot complains about my fees, which are reasonable, but may be going up...

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That's going to depend heavily on your geography.  To be fair the "$700 minimum" firm where I used to work did mostly complex returns and there were at least 6 different pairs of hands/eyes that looked at every return before the client signed (this was before efile).  Preparer, reviewer, admin, admin review, final review, partner review.  It just doesn't make sense for that level of QC to be applied to a return with one W2 so I understand why they price people out that don't meet their profit standards.

[Camp1040]

And forget about the 10 key calculator, what about the 10 finger rotary calculator, that was part of my adding machine course.

[IRonMaN]

How come you never told us that you came over on the Mayflower?  At least I assume you did based on how old someone would have to be to have ever operated one of those things 😉

[Camp1040]

If you were going into the banking field...a teller, you had to be pretty proficient with one of those, needless to say I was never a teller. Texas instruments made them almost obsolete a year or  two later.

[rbynaker]

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@Camp1040 wrote:

And forget about the 10 key calculator, what about the 10 finger rotary calculator, that was part of my adding machine course.

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I always wondered what those older folks did when they went to their Rotary Club meetings.  Mystery solved!

[Camp1040]

It was fascinating to watch someone who was really good at it. Think about it, a mechanical device besides a pencil that could add, multiply and divide!