BOI CTA Penalties

[PATAX]

Research your materials and do a Google search on this and you will see difference in opinion. In one location, I read: "the Civil penalty is $500 for each day a violation continues or has not been fixed. Criminal penalties can result in a fine up to $10,000 and imprisonment for up to two years or both." The way I read that, I.E. my opinion, is that the civil penalty is unlimited. In 365 days that would be a civil penalty of $182,500. In another location I read: "Failure to comply with CTA or missing filing deadlines can result in Criminal (fines and/or imprisonment) or civil (monetary) penalties. There is a $500 per day penalty, up to $10,000, and imprisonment of up to two years for the failure to timely file initial or updated reports." The way I read that, I.E. my opinion,  is there is a maximum $10,000 penalty, which is a big difference from the former statement. Here is what I found on the official fincen government website: "The willful failure to report complete or updated beneficial ownership information to FinCEN , or the willful provision of or attempt to provide false or fraudulent beneficial ownership information may result in a civil or criminal penalties, including civil penalties of up to $500 for each day that the violation continues, or criminal penalties including imprisonment for up to two years and/or a fine of up to $10,000." Go on the FINCEN website yourself, just in case of a typo in my typing and so you can reach your own opinion, and research everything yourself in all of your reference materials and on Google, so you can reach your own conclusion . What do you guys think?

[IRonMaN]

”What do you guys think?”

I think you are getting obsessed with this.  You need to take Heidi for a nice long stroll in the woods to unwind a little.😁

[TaxGuyBill]

BOI?  What is that?  🤣

I think the the monetary amounts refer to the civil penalty, and the jail time refers to the criminal penalty.

If you want to read about it, you may want to reduce Googling and look at the law itself in Title 31, §5336.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/31/5336#h

[BobKamman]

Read the statute, don't read what other people are writing about the statute when trying to dumb it down.  The statute (Title 31, Section 5336) is here:

 https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2022-title31/pdf/USCODE-2022-title31-subtitleIV-chap53-su... 

I haven't read it thoroughly, but they seem to make a distinction between nonfilers ($10,000 maximum penalty) and people who don't protect the secrecy of data that is filed ($250,000 or more).  But it's not that clear the civil penalty, not just the criminal penalty, is capped.  See the 9th page:

(3) CRIMINAL AND CIVIL PENALTIES.—
(A) REPORTING VIOLATIONS.—Any person
that violates subparagraph (A) or (B) of
paragraph (1)—
(i) shall be liable to the United States
for a civil penalty of not more than $500
for each day that the violation continues
or has not been remedied; and
(ii) may be fined not more than $10,000,
imprisoned for not more than 2 years, or
both.
(B) UNAUTHORIZED DISCLOSURE OR USE VIOLATIONS.—Any person that violates paragraph (2)—
(i) shall be liable to the United States
for a civil penalty of not more than $500
for each day that the violation continues
or has not been remedied; and
(ii)(I) shall be fined not more than
$250,000, or imprisoned for not more than 5
years, or both; or
(II) while violating another law of the
United States or as part of a pattern of
any illegal activity involving more than
$100,000 in a 12-month period, shall be fined

not more than $500,000, imprisoned for not
more than 10 years, or both.

[PATAX]

@IRonMaN it's deer season now. Not a good time to be in the woods where the Whiskey Rebellion took place.😉

[PATAX]

@BobKamman @TaxGuyBill @IRonMaN Thanks. I think the large amount of potential penalties is a problem for the liability insurance E&O companies, and the third party preparers like attorneys and CPAs, etc.

[PATAX]

@IRonMaN Years ago we were hunting small game down in the heart of where that Rebellion took place. I decided to try to find a more secluded spot where I thought that game would be more plentiful, so I kind of got lost a little bit and separated from the others. And there it was, I stumbled upon an old broken down abandoned dugout/shanty? Close to a little crick. I was probably the first person to see that in decades.

[IRonMaN]

The first person to live and tell about it anyway 😁

[PATAX]

The Hillbillies aren't too bad. Look at Grandpa Jones, he was great when he sung that song Mountain Dew. If that didn't put a smile on someone's face, then they must surely be something miserable.

[Jim-from-Ohio · Accepted solution]

I am certainly not adverse going beyond and above for my clients.  Been doing that for years and will continue to.  I am just not sure about what to do with the BOI reporting.  The AICPA is recommending that CPAs do not handle this.  The Tax Pro Fellowship also advises against it.  I know it is a bit early to be too concerned about this maybe but just trying to plan ahead. 

[IRonMaN]

I had to chuckle.  Just as I was reading Jim's post to run for your life, I received an e-mail from our state society for a class on the subject tomorrow 😀

Webinar CPA CPE: 23WA-700A: The Corporate Transparency Act: What You Need to Know to Protect Your Cl...

[BobKamman]

But is the AICPA recommendation not to help clients with BOI, part of the strategy to get Congress to repeal it?  That certainly elevates the importance of it, from "totally ignore" to "assign it to a committee where nothing is likely to happen."

[IRonMaN]

I think the "do not touch" recommendation comes from the fear of CPAs walking into kinky situations from some not so reputable clients.  For those of us that are basically dealing primarily with mom and pop entities I'm not seeing a huge pile of risk associated with the process.  I'll help out clients as needed but I am going to wait a bit to see what shakes out from this whole mess before I jump into the deep end of the pool.

[BobKamman]

@IRonMaN  I'm not sure how politically correct it is to use the phrase "mom and pop" entities these days.  

[IRonMaN]

But mom and pop are good people.  I would hate to see them go. ☹️

[Jim-from-Ohio]

100% of my business clients are mom and pop ones. 

[PATAX]

All of mine are Maw and Paw businesses too. Except one. Grandma Jones. She took over after Grandpa died. "There's an old holler tree down the road dere from me where you lay down a dollar or two; roll around that bend when you come back again there's a jug full of good ole Mountain Dew."

[Jim-from-Ohio]

Before going on holiday break, the United States House of Representatives passed HR 5119, the Protect Small Business and Prevent Illicit Financial Activity Act, by a vote of 420-1.

The bill can be found at https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/5119/text.

Changes to Initial Filing Deadlines

The bill would make the following changes to the initial filing deadlines under the Corporate Transparency Act:

The initial filing date for entities in existence before January 1, 2024 would be pushed back to January 1, 2026, two years after the effective date of the final rule for reporting. This is one year later than under FinCEN's current final rule.

The initial filing date for entities formed during 2024 would be 90 days after the entity’s formation. This is the same as under FinCEN's current final rule.

The initial filing date for entities formed after 2024 would be 90 days after the entity’s formation. This is 60 days later than would have been required under FinCEN's current final rule. [31 USC §5336(b)(1)(B) and (C) as revised]."

[abctax55]

https://accountants.intuit.com/community/lacerte-tax-discussions/discussion/boi-reporting-delayed/00...

[PATAX]

They should have not only delayed it, but they should have outright rescinded it. It looks like a Trifecta was at work: First, many businesses did not know about it, in fact I would say most businesses do not know about it. Second, many CPAs, tax preparers, etc and even attorneys, do not want to prepare this. Third, it appears many E&O/professional liability insurance companies do not want to extend coverage to The BOI Monster. Hopefully soon: RIP BOI.

[TaxGuyBill]

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@PATAX wrote:

First, many businesses did not know about it, in fact I would say most businesses do not know about it.

Second, many CPAs, tax preparers, etc and even attorneys, do not want to prepare this. Third, it appears many E&O/professional liability insurance companies do not want to extend coverage to The BOI Monster. Hopefully soon: RIP BOI.

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The purpose of delaying it is presumably to allow time for more businesses to know about it.

I still don't know what the big deal is.  In most cases, this is an extremely simple filing and there is no reason why a business would need to hire a CPA, tax preparer or attorney to do it.  They can just spend a few minutes and do themselves.  In most cases, renewing their driver's license is much more complicated than just filing the BOI report.  Yes, there may be some more complicated situations (tiered ownership, etc.), but the VAST majority of situations should be very simple for taxpayers to do themselves.

[PATAX]

@TaxGuyBill how do you know, "in most cases it is an extremely simple filing?" They haven't released the form yet. Obviously it is not as simple as you say, because that is why many insurance carriers do not want to cover it, plus the massive penalties. Even if it was just checking one box, your average person would screw that up, or not file at all. We are not a nation of Albert Einstein Jrs and Nikola Tesla Jrs, just in case you haven't noticed. Also I can remember when they claimed there was going to be a simple postcard sized income tax return. Remember that? What happened with that simple postcard sized income tax return? All they did was move lines to other schedules. It ended up making returns thicker , instead of "simpler". The devil is always in the details.

[BobKamman]

@TaxGuyBill can't understand why people think housework is so complicated, it's so simple just to write a check once a month to the cleaning lady.  Oh, you mean she needs a computer and online skills to file her BOI report?  Well, that's her problem.  

[TaxGuyBill]

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@PATAX wrote:

@TaxGuyBill how do you know, "in most cases it is an extremely simple filing?" They haven't released the form yet.

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Have you read the Act/law?  Or the section "F" of the FAQs?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/31/5336#b_2

https://www.fincen.gov/boi-faqs#F_1

[PATAX]

@TaxGuyBill oh you believe everything that they're telling you?