Need clarification on why NAS can't be used to host Lacerte file share

[techguy99]

Hi all. I'm getting caught up to speed on Lacerte. I'm exploring various options for a client who's been plagued with issues and after testing the folder share using a high end Synology NAS it appears to have resolved just about everything. I'm confused as to why it "can't" be used. Is it simply a matter of Lacerte support not being able to assist if you have an issue while using it? I've done extensive testing and it seems to work just fine with he program. I'm confused about the posts I found while searching which suggest it doesn't work when others have tried it. Thank you.

[qbteachmt]

I recommend googling:

lacerte nas network

And read the topics from this forum that are in the results.

[techguy99]

Hi @qbteachmt. That's actually what I did and what led me here. There is no technical explanation I have come across that makes sense so I need clarification.

[sjrcpa · Accepted solution]

I think it can be used but Lacerte won't support it.

[qbteachmt]

"There is no technical explanation"

I'm not sure what more technical explanation you are going to want. I will gather those google results together here for you, I guess. I am one of the participants in many of the previous discussions. Since this is not Tech Support or even Customer Support, but an end user community forum, there is only so much technical info to convey here, before it is out of place. There are lots of web-based NAS guidance you can refer to. You don't need that reiterated here.

There are a couple of basic things to know. One is that Intuit via Lacerte Support will not support an installation that doesn't meet their requirements, such as Linux or Mac running a Windows VM is something users can do, but don't expect Intuit to help you with installation, rights, user access, setup, updates, conflicts, etc.

https://proconnect.intuit.com/community/update-products/help/recommended-lacerte-settings-for-users-...

https://proconnect.intuit.com/community/product-system-requirements/help/lacerte-system-requirements...

And they will host for you: https://proconnect.intuit.com/desktop-hosting/

Let's review that NAS = network attached storage, which means an external harddrive which has the motor, logic board, etc. and can be attached directly to the router or network switch, so that everyone has access.

This is different than sharing a drive that exists installed in a computer workstation (peer sharing) or in the server (or server rack) as Shared. A disk in a computer/server needs the computer to manage and operate it and the computer's OS and end user programs and sharing scheme manage user access rights, passwords, etc.

This NAS type of share is what we can refer to as a Static Share. I like to use car keys by example: If there is one car, we might each have a set of keys. A NAS implies you can each drive that one car, even though only one car exists.

1. "File Share and Sync services aren't supported for data storage, backup, or sharing purposes. (ex: Dropbox, Google Drive, or OneDrive)"

Translation: In reality, while one person has the car out, the other keys are useless for now.

To review a basic: this is not an unknown or isolated condition for Lacerte. Using a program that accesses data files where concurrency matters, matters. If you take a simple example, such as Word and Excel, you know they can have multiple data files open at the same time. However, as is especially true for many database programs and for relational databases particularly, you cannot do that same thing. Unlike Word and Excel, things are not loaded into local memory and cached that same way; and if they are, it doesn't apply to the actual file, anyway. It's not just an open file; it's also file pointers and locked records. An end user can understand that if you point out how one change to a tax schedule or form will need to update linked forms and/or schedules, which is also why two people cannot be working on the same file at the same time with Update. For people who use Carbonite, as an example, they can use this as a Backup, but they think that also means file share. But it creates conflicted copies for the types of files that need to be managed, not just shared.

I like how, at this topic: https://proconnect.intuit.com/community/lacerte-tax-discussions/discussion/no-read-only-on-nas/00/67...

"The rep thinks that it will still act as read only and when the second tax preparer tries to make changes to such a file, it will either give him a warning then or crash the software."

Ha ha ha. I would never try that in a production environment, or allow a rep to give that answer to a customer.

There is a person in that topic who "sees this as a flaw in Lacerte" and the answer is, it wasn't intended to do what you are doing. It's Working As Designed, and not designed to manage a NAS as a NAS. There are ways to make it work, but not as NAS. What matters is if you are plugging it into the router, mapping drives, Hosting it through a server, are you trying to run the program or only a datafile library, etc.

https://proconnect.intuit.com/community/lacerte-tax-discussions/discussion/do-i-really-need-a-host-i...

What really matters for most of this is to understand a NAS has no OS. It is not able to be Managed with a Windows service or a program that wants to manage open data files. Lacerte and Windows can't be the boss of the NAS, but they need to be.

https://proconnect.intuit.com/community/lacerte-tax-discussions/discussion/best-setup/00/109921

"It's because NAS isn't able to run an OS, so the management services that might be needed to handle data file concurrency are also not available, unless the NAS is being managed by a system. Not just Shared, but Mapped."

There are lots of places on the internet to understand this. No one is telling you that a NAS cannot be used. The issues are How it is used and what you expect from it, because there is no NAS setup or support for Lacerte.

Different perspectives.

[abctax55]

There is no technical explanation 

It is because Lacerte says so...

As Susan says, yes - you can use a NAS.   I have for 12 years, but without "any" Intuit support for it.  2 years ago it became almost unusable - unstable & couldn't be accessed by more than one person and so slow it wasn't viable.  For 2021 returns I have switched to a mapped drive solution.

[techguy99]

Okkie dokkie then. Clearly you have no understanding of ntfs, btrfs, etc. Honestly that's all you needed to say. No one likes a keyboard warrior.

[techguy99]

Thanks @sjrcpa 😀

[George4Tacks]

The search function is not very good, but clicking here will give you want it yields for NAS

[qbteachmt]

"Clearly you have no understanding of ntfs, btrfs, etc. Honestly that's all you needed to say. No one likes a keyboard warrior."

No one likes a complainer, either. If you think that text took very long, well, you're wrong. Apparently, I am faster on the keyboard than you can be; I also am great at copy-paste and edit. I'm a keyboard Butcher, not a keyboard warrior  🙂

You don't know my experience or abilities. Apparently you are in the wrong place, or no one can answer you to your satisfaction. If you want a Tech Support answer, contact Intuit, not the end user community (and their support people).

What you should do next, is do it. Help yourself. No one on the internet can help you do it.

[qbteachmt]

As I pointed out in my initial attempt to help you get your information, there are lots of resources on the web for the issue, if you want to "get technical" that don't need to be copied into a Tax Preparer End User community forum. I didn't realize it might be difficult to do the search for yourself, so I will offer some links and highlights here and you can pursue the links to read technical details and perhaps see other links:

https://flylib.com/books/en/3.174.1.26/1/

"The caveats for NAS are twofold. The architecture employed by NAS products does not lend itself to applications that are dependent on sophisticated manipulation of the storage media meaning any application that either has its own embedded file system to map and store data to the online storage directly, or that works with data management products, such as relational databases, which do the same. Secondly, applications that deal with highly volatile data do not perform well in other words, data that is subject to constant and continuous updating by a large user base."

Having a management utility can be helpful: https://www.cleartechnologies.net/network-attached-storage-nas-is-better-with-vsi/

"Network Attached Storage (NAS) is an exceptional solution for customers who wish to quickly and extensively share files within their network. The reasonable cost of NAS devices has led to expanding usage by organizations, and has led to the development of clustered NAS solutions by IBM and other storage hardware suppliers.

Regardless of the storage technology used, the need for storage continues to expand exponentially. Storage demand is primarily driven by unstructured data, which is defined as data that is not part of a relational database. NAS solutions are specifically designed for storing this type of unstructured data."

This document compares NAS and SAN; https://www.snia.org/sites/default/education/tutorials/2008/fall/applications/StephenDaniel_Running_...

And: https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/458814-for-a-sql-db-which-would-be-best-san-or-nas

To help understand that other solutions are available, and the history of NAS including the issue of corrupt DB. Another proposal as a make-it-work:

https://www.brentozar.com/archive/2012/01/sql-server-databases-on-network-shares-nas/

And interestingly enough, the gorilla in the room has this reference material: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/troubleshoot/sql/admin/support-network-database-files

Including: "Additional notes

Incorrect use of database software with a NAS product, or database use with an improperly configured NAS product, may result in data loss including total database loss. If the NAS device or network software does not completely honor data guarantees, such as write ordering or write-through, then hardware, software, or even power failures could seriously compromise data integrity."

I found a nice Q&A that helps with writes, torn pages, etc: https://dba.stackexchange.com/questions/78892/can-you-put-a-sql-db-on-a-nas

How heartbreaking is this: "The entire DB got corrupted, many files had a size of zero"

Now, obviously, if you are the programmer of Lacerte, you have more control for making it fault tolerant for NAS purposes or at the least, packeting the data in processible chunks. I am part of the Intuit Developers' Group and there is specifically a Lacerte SDK you can use, if you want to write an integration intermediary that provides gatekeeping to the NAS.

Group: https://proconnect.intuit.com/community/lacerte-sdk-group/gp-p/501 (a subset of this forum platform)

and the SDK resources:

https://developer.intuit.com/app/developer/lacerte-sdk/docs/lacerte-get-started

Hope that helps.

[techguy99]

That does help. Thank you @qbteachmt.