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Back Door Roth

MDFTAX
Level 3

Hi Community, 

Have the 1099R for Back Door Roth (Conversions to Roth) changed?

 

This 1099R 

Box 1 has Distribution

Box 2a has a TAXABLE AMOUNT  equity to Box 1

Box 2b states Taxable Amount Not determined

Box 7 Distribution Code 2

Why is this amount being taxed as a DISTRIBUTION?

 

There should be no tax if it was a conversion done promptly within the allowable time.

Can you please help with this? I am just perplexed. 

Is this taxable or not?

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1 Best Answer

Accepted Solutions
sjrcpa
Level 15

8606 can be filed by itself.

If taxable income is not affected I wouldn't amend.

You mentioned earnings in the IRA. If the regular IRA has/had other money in it besides the $6K being converted, it won't all be nontaxable. You need to know the year end FMV of the IRA account, too to fill out the 8606.


The more I know the more I don’t know.

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7 Comments 7
sjrcpa
Level 15

Have you entered the basis of the IRA?


The more I know the more I don’t know.
MDFTAX
Level 3

 

I have to  go back and calculate the basis of the IRA because my client did his own taxes and has been including the conversion amounts as taxable distributions. His 8606 is incorrect.

1- Do I have to amend his prior returns and 8606 to get the correct basis?

2- In order to calculate the basis each year, what documentation should I request? to determine

---- IRA Contributions

---- IRA earnings

3- The IRA Contributions that were never taken as tax deductions and converted to Roth are not taxable?

4- Are the IRA earnings that were converted to Roth taxable?

 

Thanks in advance!!!

 

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sjrcpa
Level 15

8606 can be filed by itself.

If taxable income is not affected I wouldn't amend.

You mentioned earnings in the IRA. If the regular IRA has/had other money in it besides the $6K being converted, it won't all be nontaxable. You need to know the year end FMV of the IRA account, too to fill out the 8606.


The more I know the more I don’t know.
MDFTAX
Level 3

Many Thanks- your response is very helpful!

sjrcpa
Level 15

You're welcome.


The more I know the more I don’t know.
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qbteachmt
Level 15

"3- The IRA Contributions that were never taken as tax deductions and converted to Roth are not taxable?"

That's Basis, and not taxable.

4- Are the IRA earnings that were converted to Roth taxable?"

Yes. And now you have a problem.

If your client has commingled funds, you will want to learn how Pro Rata works. You can't take a specific amount from a Trad IRA to convert and call it Backdoor. There are no ordering rules in conversion.

Backdoor only works as fully nontaxable if all they had in the source account was Basis. Otherwise it's pro rata taxable, every time.

Like this:

For purposes of this process, aggregate Trad IRA, SEP IRA and SIMPLE IRA accounts.

Any contribution that was never deducted is Basis. Other funds in the account(s) would be pre-tax contributions, rollovers from employer plans, and untaxed earnings.

When they "backdoor" that's just a conversion. The backdoor process relies on having only basis and converting from Trad to Roth before there are any earnings, too. Once there are commingled funds, it is pro rata taxable.

Basis amount divided by FMV of aggregated accounts at year end = % Basis. Let's start an example:

$6,000 Basis contributed, $3,000 contribution deducted years ago, account(s) grew to $10,000 FMV.

$6,000 / $10,000. So, 60% is Basis, 40% has never been taxed ($3,000 deductible contributed + $1,000 growth). Let's convert $5,000.

Next, Converted amount * % basis.

$5,000 * 60% = $3,000 is Basis in the conversion (not taxable).

Converted amount minus basis amount = Taxable amount.

$5,000 - $3,000 = $2,000 taxable.

And going back to the account(s) aggregated:

$10,000 FMV minus $5,000 converted = $5,000 in account(s).

$3,000 basis removed from $6,000 basis, so now it is $3,00 basis remaining and the rest is the untaxed. Next conversion, you use the $3,000 Basis + any new basis, of course, for conversion against the new FMV.

 

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MDFTAX
Level 3

Many Thanks qbteachmt!

 

I appreciate your help

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